Interview of Michael Young, February 28, 2025
Interviewed by Linda Jeffrey
This photo shows the installation of the mural in 2018 using a large roller.
This oral history of artist Michael Young was conducted in front of a live audience in the Kansas Statehouse while viewing the mural he painted depicting the U.S. Supreme Court decision, Brown v Board of Education. A short program preceded the interview which was followed by a question and answer session with the artist. The attached transcript includes the Q/A session but not the preliminary remarks by Senator Jeff Klemp, Senator Ty Masterson, Rep. Dave Buehler and Governor Laura Kelly. They were widely quoted in the press about the event. Two of the press accounts from Bryan Richardson, Hawvers Capitol Report/State Affairs and WIBW TV are also attached. To see the video of the introductory remarks, go to NEWS.
Mr. Young was born in Kansas City, Kansas in 1952 and grew up in Lansing, Kansas. He studied commercial art in Salina, Kansas, and worked as an illustrator in Kansas City before moving to New York City in 1978. There he studied with Bill Weltman, a world-famous anatomy instructor, to master the anatomical figure. He produced hundreds of lithographs and serigraphs, mainly in the Art Deco style, with shows at many fine galleries across the country. More information about Michael Young’s work can be found on his website.
Linda Jeffrey: Thank you so much. We have had some preliminary comments, but those are not on the record. So, I’m going to begin with an introduction and follow that up with some questions, but in order to have a clear record, I’ll be a little repetitive.
My name is Linda Jeffrey. I’m retired, which I love to say. Since I’ve been retired, I’ve served as the president for the Kansas Historical Foundation. I’m immediate past president. I also served as a member of the board of trustees for the Shawnee County Historical Society. Before my retirement, I had the privilege for working in state and local governments as a lawyer, and that included being a city attorney for the City of Topeka. I worked as a county counselor with the chief attorney for the civil government of Shawnee County as well as I worked in the State Attorney General’s Office under two different attorney generals. So, I’ve had an opportunity to do a lot and participate in activities that were impacting citizens, the community, and government. It has been my privilege.
Right now, I will be conducting an interview with Mr. Michael Young on behalf of the Kansas Oral History Project. That is a nonprofit corporation created for the purpose of interviewing former legislators and other significant leaders of state government, particularly those who served from the 1960s through 2010. The interviews will be accessible to researchers, educators, and the public through the Kansas Oral History Project website. Of course, that’s kansasoralhistory.org, and also in the State Library along with at the Kansas Historical Society.
We do our very best to make these things accessible because it is a learning experience, and the more information and the more opinions that we hear, the greater we will be as individuals. It increases our ability to think and analyze and know what we believe based on facts. We also are going to be working with David Heinemann who is a former Speaker Pro Tem for the Kansas House, and he will be our videographer today. So, I say thank you to Dave.
Now, let’s go to our honored guest, and that is Mr. Michael Young. Mr. Michael Young is with us because he has created a masterpiece, and we can look and see the masterpiece. It is readily available. I would like to just give a little information about Michael, and then I’m going to open it up with an open-ended question and let him tell us more about himself.
First of all, I want to say that Michael Young was born in the Kansas City area. He trained in New York City but has returned back to Kansas, and he is welcome because he has contributed so much. He and I were born the same year, 1952, in Kansas City, Kansas. This information is from his website: His interest in art began as a child observing his father Eugene draw and paint in their basement. Their home was in Lansing, Kansas. At seventeen years old, he enrolled in a two-year commercial art program in Salina, Kansas.
After graduation, he opened a studio in downtown Kansas City, Missouri, but we won’t hold that against him. It is what it is. And then he had the fortune of luck to be able to understand more about art. He opened a studio/gallery in downtown Leavenworth, Kansas for several years. Feeling he needed to gain more knowledge he and his girlfriend Vickie drove to New York City, and he studied under some great artists at the Art Students League. So, that’s the basic background, but it’s more of an outline. So, Michael, I’d like you to tell us something about yourself, just a short bio that we can all appreciate.
Michael Young: Okay, I’ll try. All I knew growing up in grade school, I went to Sacred Heart in Leavenworth, they did have an art program and of course, watching Dad do oil paintings in the basement. He talks about [how] I would change his paintings when he’d be at work. I remember changing them. He liked to tell that story.
In second grade in Sacred Heart Grade School, I learned the grid method where the sister gave us all a little Christmas card, and we had to enlarge it to a larger sheet of paper. So, maybe the Christmas card would be in half-inch squares and the larger piece would be one-inch squares. We would number 1 through whatever it took and then A, B, C, D at the top. That way, you could line up your numbers and your letters and enlarge the square that way.
As a matter of fact, that’s how I did this one. I didn’t use a projector. I did the grid method. So, that lesson alone has really come in handy, and I used it many times over the years.
Probably around sixth grade, I was getting curious. I was sitting in the back row, and I was drawing a female nude when I was supposed to be studying and listening to the Sister. So, the girl next to me said, “Oh, my god, that’s really, really good. Can I see it?” It looked basically like a couple of fried eggs. I was hesitant but I handed it to her. She immediately marched up and gave it to the Sister and she took it down and handed it to the principal who then called my parents.
My mom and dad had to show up there. I was in one room, and they were in another. They said, “I don’t know. This is just not normal for a boy his age. I don’t know what’s going to happen. We have to keep an eye on him” and all that stuff. I felt so terrible.
I then had to go on my paper route. I remember being atop a steep hill, I wanted to speed down and crash because I thought it was the end of the world.
I got home, and my dad took me aside and to my bedroom. He said, “Don’t make too much of this. This is totally normal what you did. Don’t think anything more about it. People out there are making money from this. Just don’t worry another moment about it.” And that made me feel so good that my dad kind of stuck up for me.
Things like that, who knows? Maybe it turned me into an artist after all. Lansing High School didn’t offer an art class at the time, but I found a little school in Salina, Kansas. It was a two-year program. I studied commercial art, and I was really glad I did. It was one of those things. I was lucky enough to get in. Somebody dropped out the day before it started. They called my house. It was a good thing my mom was there to answer the phone.
The next morning, we drove to Salina. I think I have about five things that say, “If this didn’t happen, the rest wouldn’t have happened.” But that two-year program enabled me to land a job in Kansas City. Then again, it was one of those things. My mom would always come up and I’d be lying on the floor. I worked for a little newspaper in Leavenworth that didn’t pay me. It didn’t pay any of its workers. So, I knew this was not going to work.
One day, I was laying on the floor, and my mom came in and kicked me with her foot and said, “Get off the floor, you lazy bum. Do something.” I would always have the same stock answer. I would say, “I’ve got something up my sleeve,” and she’d say, “It’s not going to do you any good there. You’re going to have to get it out.”
One day, she said, “Grab your portfolio. I’m going into Kansas City.” Friday afternoon, my instructor at Salina Vo Tech said, “Don’t apply to this place. You’ll never get on.” I got there on a Friday afternoon. I was going to hide around the side of a building so I wouldn’t have to go in and face another rejection.
Finally, I went in and talked with Jules Scheffer. He studied my portfolio for a moment and said “Well It looks like you can make a straight line.” I said, “Yeah.” “Can you start on Monday?”
That was another thing, getting that first job was so important. Where was I going with this? I worked there for several years, learning architectural illustration. As you can see in most of my work, I use quite a bit of architecture. It taught me the ins and outs of how windows set back in and how buildings are built, and it really gives you a better understanding when you paint them, it really helps out.
I got that job. I opened a little studio in Leavenworth for a couple of years. Then my girlfriend at the time, we decided to drive to New York City so I could attend the Art Students League, which I’d heard so much about. A lot of famous artists went there. I was really excited to go. It really helped me a lot?
LJ: Is that where you learned about prismatism?
[Ed. Note: Mr. Young added this information after the interview: “In 2000 I began experimenting with a Semi-Abstract technique I coined Prismatism. I find it challenging but rewarding!”]
MY: No not at this time. I met this kid next to me in the drawing class drawing an undraped figure. He would first draw the ribcage and pelvis. He then added the bones and then the muscles. I said, “Oh, my god. How long have you been drawing?” He goes, “A long time. Four months.” “Four months!” I said, “Man.” He goes, “Well, my instructor’s down at 26th Street, I’d meet him down by the Fashion Institute. He’s in a room next door. I’ll introduce you to him during break,”
His name was Bill Weltman. He was a taxi cab driver but also worked for Marvel Comic Books as an inker for them. He developed his own drawing system about drawing the rib cage, pelvis and everything that follows.
So, each week, I’d have to have twenty ribcages done, for instance. He said, “You don’t want to learn this.” I said, “Yeah, I do.” I was with him for about two years, and that really helped me. After that, I didn’t use live models but mostly drew them out of my head. They might not be as realistic looking, but they’re a little more unique and that sort of thing.
In this particular case, I tried to get models for doing the mural. There were a couple of young Black children at the mall. I went over and asked them if they would pose for me, and they ran off and screamed for their mom. So, I said, “Well, I guess I should have asked the mom first.”
Anyway, I ended up kind of doing all the models myself and just working—that’s why it took a little longer. I didn’t use an exact person for this or that.
LJ: This Brown mural, could you tell us how you were selected as the creator and the artist? What prompted you to even apply?
MY: I was so lucky. First of all, I applied for the murals in the rotunda in 1973. I wasn’t ready. I was only twenty-two. I really had to lie about all my things. “This is in this mansion. This is in this mansion. This is in this mansion.” I just wasn’t ready.
But, anyway, in 2012, I went to this Easter dinner in Lansing, and my brother-in-law, Mitch Young—his name’s Young, too—from Lawrence, he goes, “You’re not going to believe what I heard on the radio this morning.” I said, “What?” He said, “They’re going to look for a muralist for the state capitol in Topeka,” and I said, “No kidding, That baby’s mine!
Immediately I went home and I looked it up and applied and started doing research. I had to jump through hoops. I had to have certain files, which I didn’t know anything about files at the time to hand in to be included. So, it was a good thing he heard it on the radio or else I never, ever would have found out about this project, and I would have missed it completely. So, it was some dumb luck there.
When I started, I was very serious, I immediately started researching, getting as many books as I can, reading up, reading about the five cases[1], and what I could do to show to the committee. I think Jenny Chen [Executive Director of the Kansas Historical Society] was with us at the time, and she was wonderful.
Basically, I did a couple of different options in case. This was one similar to this. [Young held up images of other designs.] The other one, which I have here, Thurgood Marshall was the main character in this one who presided over all five cases and later became a Supreme Court justice.
So that looked totally different. I had these two options to go with. At the last second, I said, “Don’t even take this one. Just take the one I feel strongly about.”
And I really lucked out. What about a teacher reading to some students, a mixed group of children, Black and White both. I think originally my teacher was White, and that was one where she called back and said, “Can you make three changes?” One of them was the teacher. I forgot what the other two were. I was glad to make the changes to present to the committee after that.
LJ: Let me ask you about some other paintings that you might have done or created. Have you done other community projects like this?
MY: One similar to this I have in the Leavenworth County Courthouse in Leavenworth, with a bleeding Kansas theme. Then again, I found out about that. I think it was Keyta Kelly in Tonganoxie, and she contacted me. They chose three artists to be the muralists. Ernie Ulmer. I forgot the name of the other one. So, Ernie Ulmer’s mural and I are right across from each other.
The same thing, I did as much research as I could. I started doing all my designs and layouts. I was never good at book reports in grade school, but it kind of forces you to learn as much as you can. If you have enough information, you can whittle away some things and keep the stronger ones. That was my thinking toward that one and this one.
LJ: What do you think is the value of public art?
MY: Oh, I think public art—first of all, people see it. I have some wonderful paintings in people’s homes. A lot of them don’t have any guests. It’s such a private thing. Whereas this type of art, thousands of people will see it and hopefully appreciate it.
LJ: Okay. Very good. I appreciate that. Let me ask you, you were born in 1952. I was born in 1952. Brown was decided in 1954. What was your experience before you even thought about this mural, Brown v. Board during that time period. You were in Kansas going to school.
MY: I went to Sacred Heart Grade School in Leavenworth. They sent me there from Lansing to make me a better person. [laughter] Anyway, I thought about going to IMAC, Leavenworth High School. The teachers told my mom and dad, “Don’t send him up here. He will just take up fresh air and sunshine.” [laughter] I was leading up to something.
LJ: Your experience in the school system right after Brown.
MY: In Sacred Heart, we had two black children in my class. We had a boy and a girl, and I never thought anything about it, just like I was invited to birthday parties at my friend’s house. I never thought anything about it.
One day, both of them were absent. I don’t know why I had to get into this, but we were in the choir loft in the church when Sister Mary Coretta said, “Have you noticed that our two Black children are absent today” I didn’t know what she was leading up to. I think basically she said treat everybody the same. So, there must have been a few kids in my class who thought differently than me.
It’s just like growing up, my mom and dad never, ever—they were always really open and never said anything derogatory towards a Black person at all. So I had a really good upbringing, first of all. So, I had the right frame of mind, I think, to do this. But I don’t know why I remember that. It’s kind of interesting.
LJ: At the time of the decision, was there an uproar in your area? Or was this just something that happened, and we move forward?
MY: You’re talking about me getting the mural?
LJ: No, the decision, Brown v. Board back in ’54.
MY: Well, I don’t remember much about ’54.
LJ: No, but I mean, was it accepted in your community? You were in the parochial school.
MY: I was in grade school. In high school, we didn’t have any Black children in my high school. I think maybe a few years younger, maybe one, but very few in Lansing at that time.
LJ: This mural captures all kinds of people. What allowed you to do that? What part of your training? To create these people—all these figures are believable. They look like people.
MY: I try to—growing up, I didn’t do a lot of portraiture. I took a class in Kansas City. This guy named Harry Fredman, he was a former Chicago and New York illustrator. He really helped me with understanding and how the portrait phase worked. You have to know—if you’re looking at a person this way, you have to know where the unseen ear is. That’s how you think of the solid whatever. So, many things I learned from him and several other people. Then I really learned more when I went to New York in ’78. Those years in New York studying anatomy and portraiture and oil painting up there.
LJ: How long did it take you to research this project?
MY: I think I told you, I started in 2012 and then you didn’t hear anything about it for months and months. I think I did some drawings and whatever. After one or two years, you’re getting so frustrated. I was going to actually get in front of the Capitol here with a sign of protest about being a fake mural opportunity. So, I’m glad I held out and didn’t do that. [laughs]
LJ: Are you pleased with the mural?
MY: I am. Very much. No matter what artist—if they do something that’s complex, there’s always going to be a few things that say years later, “I wish I could have done that a little differently.” It’s easier to change in painting than it is in sculpture. Let’s put it that way.
LJ: What strikes you most about this mural?
MY: I think maybe I tried to—maybe the eyes. The eyes of the children, the main child especially looking at, the admiration towards the teacher and that sort of thing. I put a few things to find that school children could find, like maybe the string on the little boy’s finger over here or the band-aid. I forgot about the band-aid. The slingshot, the Chief tablet, which we all used Chief tablets back then with the chunks of wood in the paper. You had to go around the woods.
LJ: That’s true.
MY: So, I tried to hide some things there. The worm in the apple. I wanted something that kids would find humorous, make it fun for them, and adults like it, too.
LJ: And you have protestors on one side. What’s your thinking about that?
MY: That was from the one case, I think it was in Mississippi where they actually hounded the children going into the school. I just wanted to show the anger in their faces, about how the resentment of having these children go into their school. I wanted to show that without having it as the main focal point of the picture, but it had to be there, or else it wouldn’t be a complete story.
LJ: A complete story is important. We believe you did an excellent job with this.
MY: Thank you.
LJ: Kansans have traditionally been proud of their history, saying that we fought to come in as a free state as opposed to a slave state, and we’ll brag about our independence and things like that. Do you think that we are proud about our history with Brown v. Board and how this mural impacts that?
MY: Well, I think so. I think so. I just can’t believe it was me that did this. When you’re an artist, most things don’t work out. [laughter] Artists aren’t interested in money. You have to be dead before you’re famous. I’ve heard it all.
There were tree trimmers at our house at the new place south of Lansing by Bonner. He was trimming trees there, he came into my studio and he said, “Do you know what the difference between an artist and a Large Pizza Hut Supreme pizza is?” “No.” “The pizza can feed a family of four.” [laughter] I said, “Oh, man. Well, thanks a lot. I’ll have you know my children have never missed a meal.”
LJ: You have an excellent sense of humor, very witty. I’m sure that was a benefit in your creation.
MY: It helped me so much, having to be able to come up with ideas. I think I told you about the second grade at Sacred Heart. I wrote a story and felt really good about it. Afterwards, the Sister said, “Your story was really different. It was so different from everybody else’s. It was so creative” and whatever. That alone helped me so much, when you just get a little positive feedback.
But ideas have always come easily to me. I’ve worked with artists for years, and they say, “How do you do it?” I said, “I don’t know.” They say, ”I’d love to be able to paint pictures, but I just don’t know what to paint.” I said, “I’m sorry.” It’s so sad that somebody’s got the technical end of it, but not the creative part.
Of course, my mom said I’ve got the creative side from my mom. It’s my mom’s side, and then my dad’s side was the artistic side. My uncle Tom, his brother, was taking a correspondence course, and he was almost finished with it when he died in France in ’44. So, my dad got in touch with them. He said, “Could I take over his correspondence course?” They said, “Yes, sure,” under the Hardship whatever. They let him finish my uncle’s correspondence course, which I still have all the books and all that, which my dad gave me. So, my dad helped me in a lot of ways as far as—we didn’t get along about everything, like politics and other certain things, but we sure could talk about art. That was the bond that kept us together.
LJ: Mr. Young, what else would you like us to know about you and this beautiful mural?
MY: Oh, just to know that I’m a very, very lucky person to be able to do this, to be able to do it and be awarded the prize, how grateful and how proud I am for having a painting, a mural in the Capitol. In eighth grade, our class from Sacred Heart came down here. I was just so amazed with the John Steuart Currys and the ones in the rotunda. We didn’t go all the way up to the top. We got up to wherever they signed their names, and you’re saying, “Oh, my god, they would get out on this thing like this and sign their names. They could have fallen.” So, that kind of gives you the willies. But I’ll never forget that trip when I was in grade school to the Capitol. That’s why I’m just so proud to have the piece in here.
LJ: I know you can’t really get up and look around, but one area or image in this mural would you say is the most important to you?
MY: Important.
LJ: Yes, important.
MY: Probably on the right side, it reads from the left to the right, it shows the success, the graduates graduating, getting the first professionals—they’ve got doctors and nurses and professional jobs, how it helped the whole program. I think that probably is the main strongest point.
LJ: When visitors, students, others, teachers even, when they look at this mural fifty years from now, what do you think their reaction will be?
MY: “I can’t believe he’s still alive.” No, I’ll be gone by then.
LJ: We’ll be gone.
MY: I’m joking. I don’t know. Just hopefully having the same strong emotions we all do, getting people together and making it blend and making it a better place for everyone.
LJ: Anything else you want to add?
MY: I’ll think of something later. No, just thank you for everyone coming here. One thing I would like to say and this is kind of a—three weeks before the mural was unveiled in 2018, Linda Brown passed. Look how close that was to having Linda—Linda would have been here had her health, if she had been around, she would have been here. It was wonderful meeting the family, Mrs. Brown. I think she was ninety-seven at the time. Do you know if Mrs. Brown is still with us?
Audience Participant Q: She is.
MY: She is? She’s got to be about 100, isn’t she?
Q: Yes.
MY: Or more than that, more than that. But seeing her. She was wonderful. And Cheryl Brown, Cheryl the sister and the granddaughter. “Mrs. Brown, you’ve got a lovely daughter.” That’s what I said. [laughter]
LJ: Well, we are so pleased to have had this time with you. On behalf of the State of Kansas and the Kansas Oral History project, I thank you for sharing with us today. Your passion, your professionalism, and your artistic genius are evident in this mural, and the ability to hear from you in a casual setting is priceless. So, thank you so much.
MY: Thank you. Thank you, Linda.
[Applause]
Joan Wagnon: Do you want to answer a few questions?
MY: I can answer a few.
JW: We have just a couple of minutes left. [to the audience] Mr. Young has said he’d be happy to answer your questions. Representative Estes—Susan, your question?
SE: Can you please talk about why you chose to do a rainbow in the upper righthand corner and what that means to you?
MY: The rainbow represents happiness and it’s beautiful. I kind of forgot I put it in there. I didn’t start it over there, did I? I guess I did, and I just had it on the right, which is the side I wanted. That’s a good question. I knew then what my point was, but it’s just the fact that it’s beautiful. It was an empty space there. I needed to fill it up. Yes?
Q: What does the sunflowers on the desk mean?
MY: The sunflowers in the what?
Q: On the desk.
MY: On the desk. Oh, you know, like sometimes children would bring something for their teacher and put it on their desk to get a better grade. [laughter] So, that’s why I have an apple up there. Then someone brought her sunflowers. I put a couple of other things up there—the pencil sharpener. That’s another thing you have to look forward to find—some pencils are floating kind of in the street to the left of that. The book, the Crayola box, ever used Crayolas? The straight edge, the circle maker, what’s it called?
Q: Protractor.
MY: A protractor. That was one of the few tools that children use in art class and that sort of thing. Yes?
Q: Can you talk about how long it took you to paint? Did you start in the center and work out or start on one—how did you just technically go about the painting?
MY: Whenever I do any painting, I try to go from—like how you read basically, you go kind of from left to right. It depends on what it is. A lot of times, I start with the background. In this particular case, I probably did the sky first and brought down—I started putting the school’s back—I usually work from background to foreground and then sometimes do the foreground. There’s no really rhyme or reason.
Some people have a definite system. There’s so much to do. Where do you start? You have to start someplace. Usually I try to cover up as much of the background as possible, not really finishing anything. I can do that towards the end. Some people finish everything as they go. I kind of do that a little differently.
Q: How long did it take you?
MY: Probably the actual painting time when I finally got the go ahead, probably took four-and-a-half months, something like that. Yes?
Q: My question is what would you say to African American children today about the history regarding the painting?
MY: What would I say to African Americans about the history?
Q: African American children about the history.
MY: I would just tell the story about Linda Brown, how she wanted to go to one school closer to home and ended up being bused all the way across town and equal rights for all citizens. There was a time where the drinking fountains and the movie theatres had their own section. Right around at the same time, it all started changing. So, children, thank goodness, they don’t have to experience that nowadays. Yes.
Q: I am looking at, you said the building, the architect, and it says, “Equal Justice Under the Law.” Is that supposed to be the Supreme Court?
MY: That’s the Supreme Court building. That’s where they held the—[trial].
Q: So you put that in the middle. Was that the overarching part, and then you put the teacher in front. I think I know what your point was for putting the Supreme Court there.
MY: It was a big part of all the cases. They were held there in that building. Thurgood Marshall was the head lawyer. I felt it was a really important building to put as a backdrop in it. As far as the other sides, I included two schools, but it’s just a way of combining it all together. That was an important building, and I had to put something there.
Q: That’s what I hear a lot of people that come down the steps, they’ll say, “That’s the Supreme Court.” It’s like, “Oh, they recognize some of the things.”
MY: Oh, good. Yes.
Q: I want to thank you for this picture.
MY: Thank you.
Q: I want to thank you for the courthouse in Leavenworth and I want to thank you for Homer’s, the restaurant. I knew about it in the thirties. I want to thank you for the Youngs.
MY: For the Youngs? Thanks. All I know is I sure came from a good family. I’m proud of all my children. My son Ian is here, right there. He’s got my old work shirt on. He’s wonderful. He helps with everything, making prints and scanning. So, I came from a really good family and I guess made me what I am today. Yes?
Q: You talked about having little Easter eggs in your mural. I read up on it, and I noticed that it said that Monroe Elementary was one of the schools. What was the name of the other school?
MY: Sumner, I believe. Sumner and Monroe[2], right. And the other one is a museum, I think. Yes?
Q: I’m a tour guide here. So, I talk about this painting quite often. I hope I get it right. I had somebody point out a couple of months ago, inside the school bus, there is a face up in the corner there, and I wonder what that was. It looks like a Guy Fawkes mask.
MY: It looks like he has a mask on? You say the guy inside the bus.
Q: It looks like a mask, it’s some kind of a masquerade mask in the corner there. I wonder what that mask symbolized.
MY: Can I get a closer look there? Oh, yes, the guy with the mustache?
Q: Yes.
MY: I’m not sure why I put that there honestly. [laughter] To be honest.
Q: It looks like an anarchy mask. The symbolism of anarchy. That’s what it reminded me of.
MY: Yes, it does kind of look like, the guy with the mustache. You know, I kind of forgot about that face. It’s a good question. The bus is #52, our birth year, Linda. A lot of times I put in pictures either my phone number, the reverse on glass, or whatever.
I had a show in Beverly Hills in the late eighties. A week later, I get home and the phone rings. He goes, “Yeah, who is this?” I said, “Michael Young.” He goes, “Oh, you’re the artist.” “Yeah.” He goes, “I saw your phone number in reverse on the lettering of this building. I just thought I’d call it.” I didn’t know anybody would call me. So, I’ve got to quit doing that. [laughter] Yes?
Q: Some muralists hide their face in a piece. Did you put your face in there?
MY: I really didn’t. They don’t need to look at me. I’m more of a radio face instead of a television face. I’ve done that before with other things but not so much this. Yes?
Q: On the right side, I see that there’s an American flag, but there’s also other flags on the left side. There’s only two flags that I can or three that I can see.
MY: These five flags were the five states that were involved in the Brown case. Those are state flags of say—Kansas is one and the other four. [laughter] I’d kind of forgot about that. Yes, Cathy?
C: Is there any truth to the rumor that you originally put dreadlocks on one of the girls, and your wife had to say, “Mike, you need to change that hairstyle?”
MY: Dreadlocks on one of the girls? Yes, I think so. She kind of came here and directed me a little bit about hairstyles and that sort of thing. I think there’s some truth to that. Yes?
Q: Mine isn’t necessarily a question as much as a comment to say how much I appreciate being here in this interview because when I look at the mural, personally I am a child of that era. The fact that when you talk about the right side and the signs of Jim Crow and all that, you brought out the fact that after that, you could have doctors and graduates and nurses and all that. I really hadn’t thought about that. So, thank you for explaining that.
MY: You’re welcome. Thank you. Thanks for saying so.
LJ: One more question.
Q: I’m an art teacher in Lansing.
MY: Lansing High School?
Q: Elementary and intermediate.
MY: Good.
Q: I have some students here today. We are wondering if you could go back in time and make an art program, what would you want it to have? You talked a lot about how art programs have kind of shaped you, but you didn’t have access when you were younger to a lot of art education. What would you like to see young artists learning?
MY: Kind of what Ian did with me. When he was around twenty, he came into the studio in Merriam. He said, “I’m ready to be an artist now.” He said, “What should I start with?” I suggested start with the basics, understanding perspective, why you’ve got to know where that rise line is and where those vanishing points are. You’ve got to know whether it’s uphill or downhill, how everything works to make it look real. So, I would say have a thorough understanding of perspective, if you want to be a realist, a realistic artist.
You know, light, shade, and shadow, and backlighting. That was the great thing about my job in Kansas City as an illustrator. We’re working from blueprints. They’re all computerized now, but it was all hand painted for years. That job taught me entourage, it taught me scale. It taught me people. It taught me vehicles. It taught me how to make things go. You’d just understand how it all worked, and it was such a great important job to learn all of that.
Then I had to kind of unlearn some of it in terms of my trees would be so whatever. So, I had to loosen up and take some and leave some of that knowledge. And draw as much as possible. Draw from magazines. Draw people from magazines. Don’t spend a lot of time on your first things. Just do them real quick and just move on. More is more important, to do as many as possible, I think.
Tom, you had a question, didn’t you? [Tom Young, Michael’s brother]
T: I was just curious if everybody knows that you painted it at your studio, and then it was transported out.
MY: I painted at my studio in Kansas City, Kansas, and then Young Sign Companies came and installed it. He was one of the head honchos at Young Sign Companies. He basically invented the big spool, a big spool and it was on a riser. It was a hydraulic riser. You could rise and lower it. That way, we could take it all the way to that corner. In the studio, we took it down and we put it in the middle of the room and we rolled it up. [See photograph below video]
T: The Mural Hanger 2000.
MY: Yes, the Mural Hanger 2000. Have you used it since? Oh, no. We need to do another mural. But, yes, then they came and they started over there and they put the paste or the adhesive, starting up there, and then it would gradually move down. You got to be about three-quarters, and then you started relaxing, started making jokes. That’s when he knew that we had things well in hand. It’s kind of nerve-wracking at first. It’s also—when you see some of these murals on the ceilings sometimes. I think there’s a couple of rooms with murals on the ceilings. You say, “How in the hell did they do that?” It’s basically the same—it’s some French word. I can’t think of the French word now, but it’s basically you do it someplace else, and you adhere it to a ceiling or to a wall. I’m glad you thought of that. I’ve painted some ceilings, and it’s no fun at all.
So, anybody else? In that case, I did bring some of my postcards of the mural in case somebody wanted to take a postcard with them.
[Applause]
LJ: Thank you.
MY: You’re welcome.
Senator Klemp: So, we’re going to wrap it up. Thank you everyone for coming. This was a really fun project. I appreciate everybody coming out. Have a wonderful rest of the day.
[End of File]
[1] The Brown v. Board decision didn’t stem from a single case. The challenge to racial segregation in public schools arose several times from communities all across the country. Five of those communities, along with the NAACP, shared a common goal, and were bundled together by the Supreme Court: Briggs v. Ellliot (South Carolina), Bolling v. Sharpe (Washington DC), Brown v. Board of Education (Topeka, KS), Davis v. County School Board (Farmville, VA), Belton (Bulah) v. Gebhart (Delaware).
[2]Monroe School is the home of the Brown v. Board of Education National Historical Park in Topeka, Kansas.
Statehouse, Topeka, KS
Interview Transcript
WIBW_Coverage